Welcome to MunicipalBonds.com. Please help us personalize your experience.

Select the one that best describes you
Municipalbonds logo

Jayden is an experienced writer, bond manager and a professor of Finance in California. His writing primarily focuses on a variety of factors influencing the municipal markets, with deep insights for his readers & investors. In addition to writing and teaching, he also manages a bond portfolio (totaling over $700 mil) for a local municipality in California.

Recent Content By Jayden Sangha
Municipal Bonds 101

Unlocking the Potential of Express Lanes and Dynamic Pricing: A Comprehensive Look

In the face of urban sprawl and increasing vehicular congestion, city planners and local...

Municipal Bonds 101

How Persistent Inflation Is Being Seen as the Top Financial Risk for the Economy

The anticipated reduction of interest rates by the Federal Reserve, initially projected at the...

Shutterstock 2138503373
Municipal Bonds 101

Assessing the Financial Toll on U.S. Government Due to Recent Uptick in Migrants

In recent years, the United States has experienced a significant increase in the number of...

Municipal Bonds 101

Municipal Debt Outlook for 2024

Against the backdrop of conflicts in the Middle East and Eastern Europe and a global economic...

Municipal Bonds 101

Unveiling the Crucial Role of Financial Forecasting in Shaping Annual Rates for U.S. Public Utilities

U.S. public utilities, like water, wastewater and solid waste, are generally operated by...

Municipal Bonds 101

Understanding the World of Municipal Debt Beyond the Conventional Purview of Local Government Issuers

Often talked only from the standpoint of cities and counties, municipal debt issuances cover an...

Municipal Bonds 101

Positive Trends in the Municipal Debt Outlook

With the Fed’s continuous fight against inflation, the interest rate environment has been quite...

Municipal Bonds 101

Dire Need for Funding for Local Governments to Deal with Growing Homeless Problem in the United States

Bigger cities in the United States are grappling with the complex and multifaceted issue of...

Municipal Bonds 101

Exploring the Complex Interplay of Municipal Debt Markets and Political Shifts

The municipal debt market is a critical component of local government financing, serving as a...

Municipal Bonds 101

Is a Higher Duration Strategy Good for Your Fixed Income Portfolio in the Current Environment?

Considering the current interest rate environment, many investors are either starting or...

Municipal Bonds 101

When Quantitative Tightening Leads to a Bank Failure in California

Headquartered in Santa Clara, California and with total assets valued over $200 billion, until...

Municipal Bonds 101

Future of Public Utilities Amid High Cost of Capital & Federal Regulations

While the federal government plays a significant role in regulating public utilities, such as...

Municipal Bonds 101

Municipal Debt Outlook for 2023

With 2022 in the rearview mirror, 2023 will likely see the continuation and effects of the...

A%20pen%20and%20a%20folder%20with%20the%20inscription%20 %20municipal%20bond
Municipal Bonds 101

How the Current Interest Rate Environment Is Shaping the Municipal Debt Markets

With the ongoing interest rate hikes, the cost of accessing the capital market to finance...

Municipal Bonds 101

Fixed Income Portfolios in the Current Market Uncertainty

With continued Fed rate hikes, many fixed income investors are currently sitting on hefty...

Municipal Bonds 101

Natural Calamities and Their Impacts on Municipal Government Debt

For everything from a natural disaster, recent example being Hurricane Ian in Florida, to a...

Municipal Bonds 101

Audited Financial Transparency for Public Sector Utilities and Credit Rating Decisions

When looking at either the historic performance or the forecasted outlook by many of the credit...

Municipal Bonds 101

How FY2022 Investment Returns Are Adding to the Pension Obligation Burden for Local Governments

In FY2022, from July 2021 to June2022, tumultuous financial markets played a key role in many...

Municipal Bonds 101

Economic Outlook of U.S. Public Sector for Fiscal Year 2023

Given the nature of recent global events, like the Russia-Ukraine conflict or coronavirus...

Municipal Bonds 101

Will High Inflation Erode the Potential Benefits of Government Infrastructure Spending?

As local and state governments, including transportation agencies, were already grappling with...

Municipal Bonds 101

A Look Into Incredible Growth in Sustainable Municipal Debt Issuances

In the midst of current economic uncertainty, U.S. municipal governments are on track to issue...

Municipal Bonds 101

What Does the Dynamic Nature of Yield Curve Indicate?

In the last few weeks, many investors were alarmed by the “inverted yield curve,” as for some, it...

Municipal Bonds 101

Taming Inflation With More Aggressive Interest Rate Hikes and Quantitative Tightening

In the most recent Federal Open Market Committee meeting, Chair Jerome Powell indicated he views...

Municipal Bonds 101

Global Economic Ramifications of the Eastern European Conflict

As local and state economies were starting to emerge from the COVID-19 grip, the economic outlook...

Municipal Bonds 101

How the Local Government Credit Ratings Strengthened in 2021

In the midst of the COVID-19 public health emergency and tumultuous economic outlooks, local...

Municipal Bonds 101

Understanding the Outlook for U.S. Municipal Utilities

All through the pandemic, U.S. municipal utilities have shown incredible fiscal resilience,...

Bond Insurance

Understanding the Prospects of Insured Municipal Debt

In a well diversified portfolio, municipal debt plays a key role in adding to its stability and...

Municipal Bonds 101

What Does Fed’s Recent Indication on Rate Hikes Mean for Fixed Income Markets?

During the recently held Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) meeting on December 15, the Federal...

Municipal Bonds 101

Municipal Bond Market Outlook: 2022

From serious inflation concerns to the Omicron variant, the fears of the world economy facing...

Covid 19%20impact
Municipal Bonds 101

The Impact of Federal Monetary and Fiscal Policies on Municipal Bond Markets

As we approach the end of 2021, the big question for all financial markets is how the...

Municipal Bonds 101

The Global Supply Chain Chaos and its Impacts on Local and State Economies

With the rapid rollout of coronavirus vaccines, the global economy is emerging out of the...

Municipal Bonds 101

Understanding the $3.5 Trillion Dollar Reconciliation Bill

Since taking office, President Joe Biden has repeatedly underscored the importance of certain key...

Municipal Bonds 101

Assessing the Health of US Consumer Markets

Although we will soon be approaching the final quarter of 2021, many of the unknowns related to...

Crumpled%20yellow%20paper%20and%20a%20sheet%20with%20the%20inscription%20 carbon%20offset
Municipal Bonds 101

The World of Alternative Revenues: Low Carbon Fuel Standard Credits

In a normal public finance transaction to raise capital, local governments often have to pledge...

Municipal Bonds 101

The Future of ESG Strategy in Municipal Finances

We often hear phrases like environmentally friendly, social and equitably beneficial, and...

Municipal Bonds 101

What Does President Biden’s Infrastructure Push Mean for Local and State Governments?

Earlier this year, President Biden introduced one of the largest-ever U.S infrastructure plans,...

Municipal Bonds 101

The Exacerbation of the Opioid Crisis during the COVID-19 Pandemic and the Strain on Local Government Resources

The strength of a local economy and its economic activity is directly tied to the health of its...

Municipal Bonds 101

What Does the Housing Market Boom Mean For Local and State Governments?

With the historic low interest rates and more pre-qualified buyers with attractive offers, houses...

Municipal Bonds 101

What Is In the $1.9 Trillion American Rescue Plan Act For Local and State Governments?

Since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, the United States government has distributed over $6...

Municipal Bonds 101

An Equitable Response To the Issue of Homelessness in the United States

Every night, thousands of Americans, from all age groups and ethnic backgrounds, sleep without...

U haul%20van%20travelling%20on%20the%20freeway
Municipal Bonds 101

What Does the COVID-19 Exodus Mean for Large Cities and Counties?

For decades, many large U.S. metropolitan cities have seen their rental markets reach new heights...

Municipal Bonds 101

What Does the Recent Hike in Treasury Yields Indicate?

The recent unexpected hike in treasury yields has many investors worried about the future of...

Municipal Bonds 101

Pension Obligation Bonds: A Prudent Investment or a Speculative Venture?

The issuance of Pension Obligation Debt has been a topic of contention amongst various local and...

Municipal Bonds 101

Is Economic Rebound Certain for Local and State Governments in 2021?

The U.S. local and state economies contribute over 10% to the national GDP, and their economic...

Municipal Bonds 101

Municipal Debt Outlook for 2021

With 2020 in our rearview mirror, the year 2021 will likely be a year of change along with...

Municipal Bonds 101

The Unpredictable Future of Publicly Funded Stadiums

Despite the positive news on the COVID-19 vaccine and the federal government’s efforts to mass...

Municipal Bonds 101

From Service Cuts to Budget Shortfalls: What Is in Store for American Transportation Agencies?

With a continued historic decline in ridership numbers and no additional federal help in sight,...

Municipal Bonds 101

What Does President-elect Joe Biden’s Presidency Mean for Municipal Debt Markets?

In more ways than one, the 2020 American presidential election was a historic one: Joseph R....

Municipal Bonds 101

The Fiscal Future of American Cities Beyond 2020

As we are nearing the end of calendar-year 2020, contrary to earlier expectations and political...

Municipal Bonds 101

Potential Impacts of Political Shift in the United States

From the widespread Coronavirus pandemic to the worldwide economic halt, 2020 also happens to be...

Municipal Bonds 101

The New Normal for Local Governments and Credit Rating Downgrades

Between unemployment and underemployment at the individual level to impaired income sources for...

Municipal Bonds 101

Local Governments’ Fiscal Resilience to be Tested Long After COVID-19

All local governments throughout the United States are facing some serious fiscal and other...

Municipal Bonds 101

College Towns Across the U.S. Are Bearing the Brunt of COVID-19

In the wake of COVID-19, California’s largest higher public education institution, California...

Municipal Bonds 101

Transportation Agencies Are Bracing For The Worst

Widespread public fear of traveling and especially using public transportation paired with the...

Municipal Bonds 101

Lost Tax Revenues and Potential Budget Cuts: The New Normal for Local Government Finances

As the entire country is still struggling to emerge from COVID-19, local and state governments...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Calgary to Houston: The Future of Oil Driven Economies

From COVID-19 lockdown to massive layoffs in Calgary, Alberta, and mass bankruptcies by drilling...

Municipal Bonds 101

Future of Airport Debt in the Midst of Travel Restrictions Around the World

The constant fear of COVID-19 and the uncertainty about the longevity of its financial impacts...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Economic Recession and Mounting Strain on Unfunded Liabilities

We often hear the phrase that the American economy is a consumer-driven economy and consumer...

Municipal Bonds 101

Sales Tax Revenue Forecast and Federal CARES Act in the Current Economic Downturn

With a “shelter-in-place” directive, rising unemployment figures and Coronavirus fears, the...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Risk Assessments for Municipal GO and Revenue Debt Investors During Economic Downturn

In the midst of COVID-19, the domestic and global financial market outlooks are grim and the...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Impact of COVID-19 on Local and State Governments

Capital markets around the world have felt the wrath of the COVID-19 threat, and investors are...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

A Rise in the Taxable Municipal Debt Issuances

For some investors, the sole purpose of investing in municipal debt is to take advantage of the...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Municipal Bond Market Outlook: 2020

Due to the dynamic nature of financial markets, they are susceptible to an array of factors from...

Municipal Bonds 101

Understanding the New Wave of Green Debt

Municipal debt markets can cater to everyone from a conservative investor looking for principal...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Key Takeaways from Municipal Bankruptcies

When strictly analyzing the default risk of your investment holdings, municipal debt is often...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Puerto Rico’s Bankruptcy

Puerto Rico’s decade-long fiscal decline, paired with financial mismanagement and natural...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

The Jefferson County, Alabama, Bankruptcy

The Jefferson County, Alabama, bankruptcy case was slightly more unusual than other municipal...

Municipal Bonds 101

Understanding Municipal Debt Backed by Transportation Districts

Transportation debt is unique in the way that it’s often issued for projects that can take a long...

Municipal Bonds 101

Learnings from the Private Sector for Local Government Operations

The concept of public private partnership is nothing new and you will often see a strong presence...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

The City of San Bernardino’s Bankruptcy

Post the 2008 recession, throughout California, the operating costs of cities and other local...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

The City of Detroit Bankruptcy

A crippling general obligation (GO) debt, the highest unemployment rate among major U.S. cities,...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

The City of Stockton Bankruptcy

During the great recession of 2008, investors saw some of the biggest names in the private sector...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Every Municipality Is Struggling With Unfunded Pension Liabilities - What Is the Fix?

Almost every local and state government in the United States is currently struggling with their...

Municipal Bonds 101

Municipal Debt and the Looming Recession Talks

As the U.S. economy continues its longest period of growth and expansion, many leading economists...

Municipal Bonds 101

Criminal Justice Reform in the United States

The American prison system is an $84 billion industry that has been viewed as a lucrative and...

Municipal Bonds 101

Financial Implications of Natural Disasters on Local Governments and Investors

Whether it’s the draughts in California or hurricanes in the southeast parts of the United...

Municipal Bonds 101

A Sanguine Paradigm for Local Governments to Curb Uncollected Sales Tax Revenues

Given the rapid change in technology and access to information, it’s safe to say that U.S....

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Current Status of Puerto Rico Debt Restructuring

After a decade-long fiscal decline, Puerto Rico filed for bankruptcy protection and has been in...

Municipal Bonds 101

Know the Situations When Munis Don’t Offer Tax-Free Benefits

Many fixed-income investors gravitate towards municipal debt as an investment option because of...

Municipal Bonds 101

Chapter 9 Bankruptcy: An Overview

As investors familiarize themselves with their respective issuer’s credit profile, they are...

Municipal Bonds 101

Guide to Understanding an Official Statement for Municipal Debt

Prior to structuring or issuing any form of debt, the municipal issuer (local government)...

Municipal Bonds 101

Understanding the Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports (CAFRs) to Make Your Investment Decisions

As an investor in local government debt instruments, you might often hear the term ‘CAFR’ and its...

Municipal Bonds 101

Yield Curve Inversion Risk

Investors often hear the term “yield curve” and how certain forces in financial markets and...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

The Curious Case of Manassas Park, VA, and Suspension of its Credit Rating

Following the financial crisis of 2008, the financial regulations were tightened and financial...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Understanding the Role of Municipal Bonds in Your Portfolio and Potential Risks

Municipal debt instruments have always played a crucial role in the overall composition of...

Municipal Bonds 101

Municipal Bonds vs. Corporate Bonds: The Better Investment Vehicle

Everything from corporate debt to municipal debt instruments, the sheer size of U.S. capital...

Municipal Bonds 101

Evaluating Municipal Debt Instruments Using Muni Bond Indices

Like other capital markets, municipal debt markets are made up of a wide array of debt...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Understanding the Impact of Local Governments’ Financial Planning On Muni Investors

Indra Nooyi, CEO of PepsiCo, once said that you can either run an organization for your duration...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

What It Means When the Biggest Banks Reduce Their Muni Debt Holdings

For both individual and corporate investors, your tax rate serves as one of the biggest alluring...

Taxation for Municipal Bonds

Understanding the De Minimis Tax Rule

Municipal debt securities have always been attractive investment vehicles for those looking to...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Puerto Rico’s Governor leaves $0.00 for Bondholders

Post-Hurricane Maria’s devastation, Puerto Rico’s financial struggles have worsened with parts of...

Municipal Bonds 101

Three Sneaky Ways Brokers or Dealers Can Take Advantage of Bond Transactions

Whether you are managing your own investment portfolio or a private or public institution looking...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

The Curious Case of Hartford: How Can a State Rescue a Debt-trapped City?

Municipal debt, or any investment instrument backed by the tax authority of a local government,...

Shutterstock 334223177
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Laddered Muni Portfolios: A Potential Way to Hedge Interest Rate Risk

The current rising interest rate environment, where the Federal Reserve has hinted toward...

Shutterstock 596848184
Municipal Bonds 101

How Does Inflation Impact Municipal Bonds?

Due to the ability of fixed-income instruments to produce fixed and recurring income, bond...

Shutterstock 410379982
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Environmental Impact Bonds: Munis to Spice up Your Portfolio

Municipal debt markets are made up of a wide array of debt instruments and serve investors from...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

New Jersey in Trouble: Is Phil Murphy Their Savior

Whether it was political scandals like ‘Bridgegate’ under Gov. Chris Christie or the near...

Shutterstock 429053554
Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Will Chicago’s “AAA-Rating” on Its Sales Tax Securitization Corp. Hold During Bankruptcy?

The City of Chicago’s new debt transaction, secured by sales-tax revenues, emerges as the epitome...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Retail Muni Investors Stand to Gain From Passed Tax Bill

The newly introduced tax bill is going to have a substantial impact on the issuance of tax-exempt...

Shutterstock 556019467
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Buying Opportunity? China to Stop Purchasing U.S. Treasuries

The 10-year U.S. treasuries yield serves as a critical benchmark for global finance around the...

Shutterstock 362951132
Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Puerto Rico: Do First Claims on Sales Taxes Really Protect Your Municipal Bond Investment?

A combination of poor financial oversight, non-adherence to fiscal policies and an overextension...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

The Case of Passive Muni Bond Funds

Your investment in municipal debt isn’t merely just buying and selling those instruments and...

Shutterstock 397939231
Municipal Bonds 101

Introduction to Muni Bond Closed-Ended Funds

Municipal debt with investment grade ratings are generally regarded as a safer form of investment...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Making Sense of Buying Out-of-State Municipal Debts

In the municipal debt markets, investors have generally gravitated toward their own...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Potential Impacts of Tax Reforms on Tax-Exempt Bonds

The newly proposed and already underway tax proposition of the Trump administration, also known...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Illinois: Will It Become the Puerto Rico of the U.S. Midwest?

The state of Illinois has its fair share of political dysfunction, a lack of financial oversight...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

The Prospect of Muni Bond Investment in Private Colleges

The debt issuances for many educational institutes have been an integral part of municipal market...

Shutterstock 289493321
Municipal Bonds 101

The Yield Curve and its Impact on Muni Bond Valuations

The municipal debt markets are comprised of a wide array of issuers and their respective debt...

Shutterstock 569745820
Municipal Bonds 101

Interpreting Credit Ratings for Municipal Debt

Almost every municipal debt investor puts the majority of their faith into the credit rating...

Shutterstock 712751746
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Should You Invest in Newly Released Municipal Debt?

Following the recession and financial downturn for many of the local and state governments,...

Shutterstock 294782234
Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Putting Trust in Your Muni Bond Issuers

Local governments like Detroit, Michigan (2013); Jefferson County, Alabama (2011); Stockton,...

Shutterstock 593390564
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

When Not to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Investing and investment markets are not the forte of many hard-working Americans, let alone...

Shutterstock 303128147
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Should You Be Worried About Your Exposure to Atlantic City's Debt?

After some of the well-known bankruptcies of U.S. municipalities including Detroit and Stockton,...

Shutterstock 401691964
Municipal Bonds 101

Introduction to Credit Cycle

Sir John Templeton once said, “Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on...

Shutterstock 76846303
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Prospects of Sports Stadium Financing in the U.S.

The use of tax-exempt municipal debt for the construction of sporting facilities has been a very...

Shutterstock 521112148
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Fate of U.S. Hospitals Under the Proposed Republican Bill

The entire capital market, along with investors, is eagerly waiting, and somewhat predicting, the...

Shutterstock 484304791
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Trump’s Policies and Their Potential Impact on Muni Markets

One of the most appealing attributes of municipal securities is their tax-exempt status on the...

Shutterstock 471743009
Municipal Bonds 101

Potential Benefits of All-To-All Trading in Muni Markets

The slow and steady electronification of municipal debt trading processes has certainly had a...

Municipal Bonds 101

The Impact of Trump’s Policies on Sanctuary Cities

The Executive Orders (EOs) signed by President Trump have garnered plenty of national and...

Shutterstock 44395084
Taxation for Municipal Bonds

When Do Tax-Exempt Muni Investments Incur Taxes?

Municipal securities have always been attractive investment vehicles for those looking to benefit...

Shutterstock 381320083
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Are Prison Muni Bonds Good Investment Opportunities Under Trump?

In the recent election, issues like national security, illegal immigration and “American...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Benefits of Professionally Managed Muni Bond Ladders

Given the sheer size of municipal debt markets, an investor seeking to strike the right balance...

Shutterstock 368047166
Taxation for Municipal Bonds

Impact of Taxation on Zero-Coupon Muni Returns

For the average investor, irrespective of your overall investment portfolio composition, it is...

Shutterstock 262520768
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Inflation Protection Strategies Using Municipal Bonds

In the midst of a political transition, the current U.S. administration has showed an inclination...

Shutterstock 391346890
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Investing in Muni Bonds Based on Special Provisions

Many investors considered municipal debt a very safe form of investment, second to only the U.S....

Shutterstock 216917509
Municipal Bonds 101

Better Disclosures to Deter Muni Market Frauds

The U.S. municipal bond market reached a new milestone by issuing more than $445 billion in...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Risks Associated With Obamacare Dependent Muni Issuers

The municipal bond markets, along with their investors, are ferociously preparing for the future...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Essential Service Revenue Bond, a Great Alternative to GO Bond

For many investors, portfolio diversification is simply having the presence of municipal...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Choosing Between ETFs and Mutual Funds for National Municipal Debt

For fixed-income investors chasing safety, liquidity and comparable returns in today’s...

How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

What Are National Muni ETFs?

Municipal debt portfolios containing single-state-specific debt instruments have been an...

Municipal Bonds Risk Management

Potential Risks in Muni Bond ETF Investing

Any form of municipal debt with investment grade ratings is regarded as a safer form of...

Shutterstock 548377645
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Preserving Your Principal with Variable Rate Munis

As fixed income investors brace themselves for a rising interest rate environment, various bond...

Shutterstock 536108917
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Muni Bond Outlook for 2017

In the midst of rising interest rates, projected tax reforms and municipalities seeking...

Shutterstock 507888805
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Expected Tax Reforms and Their Effects on Municipal Bond Markets

If as an investor you are reluctant to take part in the intricacies of the stock market and you...

Shutterstock 527064076
Municipal Bonds 101

Should Municipal Notes Currently Fit in Your Investment Portfolio?

In recent months municipal market volatility caused primarily by interest rate expectations has...

Shutterstock 533120815
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Prospect of Muni Bonds for Distributed Water Infrastructure Projects

The U.S. water industry is currently faced with some enormous challenges to prepare for the...

Shutterstock 503598757
How to Invest in Municipal Bonds

Is This a Right Time to Invest in Private Activity Bonds?

After the presidential elections, two main questions have emerged: Can Private Activity Bonds...

Popular Articles

Municipal Bonds 101

6 Big Questions Answered About the Current Muni Market

In the past few quarters, Muni bond prices have declined primarily due to rising interest rates....

Municipal Bonds 101

Double Your Advantage: Higher Returns and Lower Risks with High-Yield Munis

The current state of the bond market is confusing to say the least. But for fixed income...

Municipal Bonds 101

Unlocking Equity-Like Returns with Municipal Bonds

Thanks to the Fed’s tightening and subsequent pause, there are a lot of good places for investors...